Comments on: Toyota Halting Sales of 8 Recalled Models

By: DGate

DGate — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:42:03 +0000

The accelerator recall has now expanded to Citroen C1 and Peugeot 107 models in Europe.
These are virtual copies of the Toyota Aygo so not surprising they were affected.

By: Paul A. Eisenstein

Paul A. Eisenstein — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:16:37 +0000

Hi, D,
Thanks for the follow-up note…and sorry if I seemed defensive. To be honest, I have been writing some tough stories about Toyota for several years and was convinced there’d be big problems to come, though not quite like this. I was accused of being hard on the maker but, frankly, the company’s own CEO has been perhaps a bit tougher since taking on that post. He’s got a tough job ahead of him.
Paul A. Eisenstein
Publisher, TheDetroitBureau.com

By: DGate

DGate — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:06:32 +0000

Sorry you were offended by the term Toyota basher,
it was not meant for you or anyone contributing so far. I also take your point on the intricacies of component manufacturing.
Additional to the recall, in Europe they are recalling the diminutive IQ,the Aygo,Yaris,Auris,Corolla,Verso,Avensis,and Rav4.
The numbers may reach up to 1.8 million.

By: tdb

tdb — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:49:15 +0000

DGate,
At the moment, Ford’s action appears to be proactive based on the fact that a small number of Chinese-made vans are using the same *supplier* (emphasis mine). It is anything but certain that Ford has a problem, at all. Right now, anyone sourcing from CTS would be right to check. You’re right, to a degree, about shared components, but you have only half the story. The Toyota accelerators appear to have been built to a very specific Toyota engineering spec. See the following story for more on the CTS response:

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/01/cts-says-toyota-responsible-for-pedal-recall/

It is not clear, yet, whether CTS provides accelerator assemblies for other Toyota products not impacted by the latest recall. We have seen this on numerous occasions where a supplier produces a single bad part for a specific customer using that automaker’s specifications but has no trouble with any other part.
This is not to let Ford off the hook, nor necessarily to tar and feather Toyota, but 1) I bridle at being called a Toyota-basher simply because of pointing out the degree of urgency in the company’s situation, 2) I don’t think the automaker should be let off the hook anymore than any other maker would in the same situation.

Toyota, it should be noted, is probably the most aggressive of mainstream brands in terms of sharing components among such a wide range of models. As a Sr. VP noted to me, a year back, “We don’t have many recalls, but when we do, this means we have big ones.” The problem is that this is starting to happen more often, which raises questions about whether the vaunted Toyota system can handle its own growth and expanded engineering challenges.

Once the latest recalls are resolved it will be telling to see if we see more safety issues in the near future or if Toyota again lives up to the quality and reliability perceptions it has cultivated, over the decades.

In particular, we are concerned about whether the problem we uncovered with the 2010 Prius brakes:

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2009/12/nhtsa-tracking-braking-loss-on-prius-hybrids/

prove to be an inconsequential matter or another serious safety problem. And, frankly, considering the role Prius has a halo car, this could make or break the company’s image.
Paul A. Eisenstein
Publisher, TheDetroitBureau.com

By: Ken Zino

Ken Zino — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:38:17 +0000

We would still be in the primordial mud if speculation about the physical nature of the universe had not led to the scientific method, which will eventually track down the root cause of pedal sticking.

My working thesis is that the pedal assembly, which is mounted near the heater outlet duct in the footwell is picking up condensation in its hinge and becoming difficult to operate. This doesn’t mean that there is not another software issue with Toyota models. I am trying to confirm that unlike most other car companies, the software does not over-ride an accelerator input request for power IF the brake is being applied at the same time.

Toyota completely mishandled this in my view, and is still not communicating effectively. – Ken Zino, editor

By: DGate

DGate — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:33:35 +0000

They can now add Ford motor co to this list as they have shut down production of a joint Chinese built commercial vehicle. They are using the same supplier as Toyota for these accelerator units.
Hope toyota bashers realise in todays world market components can be shared amongst companies and are not necessarily made by the name brand company.
Wonder if any more will surface??

By: JM in San Diego CA

JM in San Diego CA — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 04:35:42 +0000

>> I hardly think the comments I was referring to are
>> under the definition of science and mechanics.

I’m sorry. Apparently my word choice was unclear. What I meant to suggest is how some people (like myself) are naturally given to speculation. Nothing more. Now happily retired, I spent my entire working life fixing things and solving problems. I was at my best when I could think a few moves ahead, as in chess. *

In these discussion groups, speculation is a common mental exercise. Please think “brainstorming.” (Otherwise, I’d be guilty of criticizing Toyota, which would be unfair of me.)

As it happens, my speculation was correct. There IS something wrong with the pedal assemblies and/or associated linkage, a fact revealed publicly after I posted my speculation.

I feel bad about the problems Toyota is having and I hope they can work things out quickly.

Best wishes,
JM

* It’s really uncomfortable to have to say, “If this doesn’t do it, I don’t know what to try next.”

By: DGate

DGate — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:57:37 +0000

I hardly think the comments I was referring to are under the definition of science and mechanics.
However if you were to engage in a “hands on” approach into the problem seeking a solution this would fit the science and mechanics definition.
Remote speculation of a problem without having access to the facts and systems and not actually engaging in “hands on” activity is nothing more than conjecture between two parties, However when going public it becomes gossip or heresy.
You have every right to express your opinion but all too often conjectural remarks made public without any foundation are repeated by others as fact.
This leads to confusion, misconceptions and doesn’t really contribute to solving the problem in the first instance only destroying confidence in a brand.
I too would like to tackle the problem but not having access to the facts or faulty systems I choose to point out their positive actions taken which “are” factual and not conjecture.

By: JM in San Diego CA

JM in San Diego CA — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:53:03 +0000

Absolutely I applaud them but it’s in the nature of those of us who do science and mechanics for a living to engage in such speculation. Our minds are wired that way. If you’d prefer that we keep it to ourselves, I’m happy to listen but I can’t promise to oblige.

By: DGate

DGate — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:07:53 +0000

I think instead of speculating on the reasons which none of really know the facts of, it should be noted they are making a fantastic effort to fix it rather than ignore it.
To stop production and address the issue on millions of used vehicles is unprecedented and should solicit applause not gossip.